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Pre-marital sex?


Yesterday we had assembled at a friend’s place and we ended up discussing an issue that took a sensitive turn later.

The point of dispute was: “Would you be fine with the fact that the girl/boy you would marry (arranged marriage) has already lost her/his virginity? How important is the matter to you? Will you accept it? If yes, why? If not, why not?”

To quite a few of us it didn’t matter at all, while a few just couldn’t digest the very thought! Needless to say that majority who weren’t comfortable accepting were men.

The few noteworthy responses that came forth from guys were:

·          “How can you girls be so casual about sex? You talk as if you’ve grown old, independent enough, and ‘besharam’ to an extent where you all don’t feel its wrong to satisfy your sexual urges out of wedlock! I don’t accept it! It’s so creepy! The world is moving fast, sure, but it can’t be that fast that there is no sense of guilt about what you do!”
·         
“I have preserved myself for that special moment, and expect my partner to have done the same.”

·          “I would definitely ask the girl about any ‘history’ before I marry her. There are ways to put forth that question subtly. But there is no way to know whether or not she is saying the truth, if she answers that she hasn't done it. You'll have to give the go-ahead to the marriage by simply trusting her.”

·          “Personally, at the risk of sounding too orthodox, I am not fine with the idea that the girl I am about to marry has done it out of wedlock. In fact, I actually imagined such a situation, and I am afraid I wasn't too comfortable. I would definitely chicken out and not have the balls to do it before marriage either (no pun intendeds).”

·          “I am not ready to believe any Indian upper middle-class guy (forget those big-shots and page 3 socialites) who says that he is perfectly okay with a marrying a girl who has had a physical relationship outside marriage. Even though most guys would jump at the idea of doing it where there are no commitments, at the same time they expect ‘untouched’ girls! I know we are all today's youth, the x-generation, blah blah. But boys, imagine such a situation is actually happening in your lives. Would you actually be able to accept it? I know I won't.”

·          “We do fantasize about doing such things, but we don’t actually do it! There’s a difference between working it out in your mind and doing it in real!”

·          “Cuddling and kissing and all is fine. But no intercourse, please!”
Ok… so now they are even going to draw laxman-rekhas (boundaries)? I guess how much area that laxman-rekha covers largely depends on how much he/she can digest.
·          “Being a girl, if you've ever done it, please don't tell your husband. You don't know how ugly male egos are". AND, the same guys expect honesty from their partners! How ironic!

Some replies were easier for me to empathize:

·          “Some how I won't be able to accept well at least till the time I have not indulged myself into something like this! Otherwise of course.... Jinke ghar shishe ke hote hai wo dusro ke gharo pe pathar nahi feka karte... :D ...in which case I would have accepted!”

·          “I think everyone needs to have enough control on oneself, and avoid it if one is not sure of the relationship. As far as accepting such a partner is concerned, I would like my partner to be honest enough and tell me the entire truth. Everyone should be given one fair chance for his/her mistake, and I will accept it with the same consideration.”

·          “Virginity is simply lack of opportunity! Why blow it out of proportion? If you haven't had the chance to do it, why console yourself by looking down upon those who have had it, and turning it into a moral issue? ”

Ok… now I really appreciate the honesty with which all of them have expressed their opinions. I know many who are only apparently ok with the idea, when in fact; it’s a plain lie!

Why other people do doesn’t bother me. They could do it out of curiosity, need, thrill, addiction, kick or genuine love - which again is individual outlook. It's strictly a personal choice. I’ve even seen cases where men and women are so disappointed with love and so disillusioned with the whole idea of matrimony that it doesn’t matter to them whom they are doing it with, as long as their needs are satisfied. Deep down, I also feel that this kind of an ‘illegal’ (or should I say unsanctioned?) heady indulgence also stems from the need of being accepted and loved – be it in any which way then! Every act of ours arises from some sort of a need. Why not this then? Why is it immoral?

Everybody has their reasons, of course, but personally I don't approve of girls and boys who go in for one night stands. I am NOT talking about playboys and playgirls. I disapprove such people only because I would be insecure in a relationship with them, and may never be able to trust them. Otherwise, I'm not against trying out options, testing compatibility (though not sexual. One can't jump into bed with a 100 guys/girls and later say he/she isn't hot enough!). I won't be comfortable with a guy who has dated a dozen girls for a month's span each, and then 'rejected' them ‘cause it didn't click! Or gotten into bed with just a couple of them to test sexual compatibility just the way we test mental/emotional compatibility! I won't accept that, its quite sluttish (though its more commonly used for women) I feel. But again, that is MY view, not necessarily everybody else's! The situation gets even trickier if you plan to go for an arranged match. You can't be sure of how the prospect will react after such revelations! So girls tend to lie, just as men do. Not because they want to be dishonest, but because they fear rejection!

I personally am not at all against having affairs or having pre-marital sex. I also don’t mind a live-in relationship with somebody (Society permitting of course. But I won’t get into that now). There’s no right and wrong about it and one should refrain from being judgmental. If I am genuinely in love with somebody, the absence/presence of a marital bond/ritual won’t stop me... and then there is this funda of virgins who won’t go all the way The fear factor at play here? Or the wish to preserve something for the special day? Whatever… I’ve often baffled myself trying to find reasons. Again, that’s a different issue altogether.

And yes, I still don't insist that my partner should be a virgin as long as he stays committed to me post marriage. What happened was in the past... if his relationship with some girl did not work out for some reasons, does he deserve to be punished for that? Of course not! And I am not simply talking about it! In fact, I don’t fool myself into believing that a guy could be a virgin till he is 30. Exceptions are rare, but it doesn’t matter. I only expect that he should leave all his emotional baggage behind before he comes to me... Mend your heart first and then think of making a new start. I am no healer. I won’t help you get over your past at the risk of my life. Otherwise, it’s no big deal! (But yes, safe sex is! But I’ll talk about it later)

As I perceive sex, to Indians, it’s quite sacrosanct. An intimate act that is to be done only with somebody whom you really love or are tied in a wedlock with. This belief might vary depending on how much you believe in marriage and love, and why you want to perform the act in the first place! But whatever it may be, it's very very difficult for men to accept that their spouse has been in a physical relationship with some other guy prior to him. It renders you ‘unclean’ and you are no more 'marriage material’!

I don’t understand what is wrong with it! Physical involvement is just an extension to emotional proximity, as I believe, or as ideally it should be. And it’s NO mistake! And I see nothing immoral in it! And God’s sake, stop justifying the act by using clichéd statements like ‘anjaane mey paav phisal gaya!’ It’s a conscious decision and if at all there is any guilt involved, stop right there! I’ve always dreaded mental dependency as most people, especially women look out for emotional attachment in relationships. Sharing and feeling is more important than mere intercourse. When physically involved, the sense of disillusionment and betrayal is far higher when the relationship breaks up.

The flaw with a typically conservative upbringing is that a woman is supposed to be the epitome of purity, divinity, etc etc... while men have always had the liberty to be promiscuous. I hate the inequality and the biased attitude here, but it’s important to know the reasons for that mentality. It's a contradiction in itself, because Indians, esp. Hindus have always celebrated sex!

As we evolved, the need to be monogamous, and breed healthy offspring took stronger roots. Men needed women to take care and bring up 'their' children, and they needed to be sure that the children they were working hard for were 'their own'. As men grew more and more dominating, the society accepted, and even fueled the male's need for carnal pleasures, whereas women remained deprived. Women who had multiple partners were called 'whores'. But men who went philandering were never objected. They were 'meant' to be that way! And the trend continues! Men want virgins regardless of their own standing. Could be a way to feed their egos?

If you ask me, indulge in sexual acts outside/before marriage only if you are able to bear the same act by your spouse! Otherwise it’s the case of ‘sau choohe khaake billi haj ko chali’. But I still see nothing wrong with pre-marital (safe) sex.



What's your take on this?

11.3.09 17:52
 


To date 16 Comment(s)     TrackBack-URL


arroclint / Website (6.12.05 19:25)
man who are these guys u hang out with? they sound kinda hypocritical...


(7.12.05 09:04)
no, not all men think in that fashion. but yes, that was the majority. i won't call them hypocrites. they are simply prejudiced and orthodox! something like this comes as a cultural shock to most. i wont blame them. partially its because sex is looked upon as a taboo and as something shameful, and isnt discussed openly.


(8.12.05 02:55)
i'm with you; it seems crazy to think that men only want the virgin women when sometimes they can't even remain virgin themselves. Granted, i'm making a huge generalization that i probably shouldn't, but it seems like in our growing world society, premartial sex happens. Being smart about it doesn't happen enough, so props to you for doing so. I'm a firm believer in the "if you're going to do it, use protection" movement. Just because i'm waiting doesn't mean that others have to. My best friend is Indian and i know she's expressed a lot of the same views that you have already. To her, she'd rather wait until her husband claimed her, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of her friends have to wait as well. You've definitely got a viewpoint that clashes with some cultural norms, so good for you to trying to open a new current to talk about. Good luck with your endevour


(9.12.05 03:34)
exactly! just because you are waiting, doesn't mean everybody else has to! virginity is the lack of opportunity, as one rightly said. and that is glorified under the guise of morality. but then talking about these issues in your circle at least helps everybody to come close to their own thoughts and reasons, which is good i feel.
my viewpoint definitely clashes with some norms, but i wonder if this is the situation only in india or elsewhere too?!


(9.12.05 04:41)
no, it's not just India, it's the States too! Surprising how that can go against so much....for as much sex as what is showin in american media, the rest of society is so conservative, that the word sex is hardly ever talked about. Even at my college, there is no birth control information passed out annonymously, it's always about "pro-life" decisions. all i want people to understand is, if you're going to have sex, be smart. otherwise, you're better off just waiting. at least then you don't have to deal with vinarial disease or the ever growing threat of HIV/AIDS (which is a sad situation in itself). I think if the right guy, in the right time in my life were to come before i was married, then yeah, maybe i would go for that. but until then, i'm happy just waiting for my husband. And truthfully, i know it's bad to think of this, but it would matter to me if he slept with someone before. Not because of his history, or who she was; no, it's more of a question of faith. He didn't have faith that he'd meet the right woman and there'd be an appropriate time. I know so many of my friends that have just jumped into bed with someone they barely knew and have regretted it completely. I don't want to be one of them; i want it to mean something. Sex isn't just sex in my eyes (maybe it's just the fact that i'm Catholic), it's more of a joining of two souls, two beings out of complete self sacrifice for the other. passion. worlds colliding. all that.


SwB / Website (9.12.05 06:48)
Very nucely written post Archana. Ok here's what I think. Men want the women they marry to be virgins for 2 reasons.
(1)It's a probability thing. A virgin would ordinarily be seen as someone who has, and will always do the right thing. The probability of a virgin being unfaithful after marriage would normally be lower that a woman who's been 'around'. And Indian men are generally very insecure ... so marrying a virgin would definitely be less risky.
(2)There are men who simply cannot accept the fact that the woman they're with has slept with someone else. Somehow she would become second-hand maal ... what would people say? what would his friends say? And that is why there are so many wonderful women out there who find themselves unaccepted only because in the past they made serious errors of judgment or were tricked into a physical relationship by some sleazeball.
In both case you cannot really blame the men. Marriage is a lifelong commitment, and if they don't want to take any chances, you cannot really condemn them for that.
But a man who is of questionable character himself has no right to demand anything from a woman. And it is for the woman to decide if she indeed wants to have a relationship with such a guy. The problem is women are very gullible. They get fooled by sweet-talkers and then pay the price later. Often a very heavy price.
As for live-in relationships, in india it is something that just won't work. Because what happens to a girl when the live-in doesn't work? Again she gets treated like second-hand maal.
The fact remains that we cannot ignore the society we live in, however much we may want to do our own thing.
warm regads,
SwB
PS: this is the longest comment I have ever posted


Dan Husain / Website (9.12.05 18:30)
Ok! I have not read your lamba piece. I just believe in sex and ok with anyone having it! :-)
Thanks for dropping in at my page! And the muse also liked the shorter version! :-)


(10.12.05 18:32)

@katie: i've often heard that the american society is quite conservative and not the same as its projected by the media... never got to see it closely. anyway, i caught u here... though you are ok with pre-maarital sex yourself, you might be uncomfortable with your partner having it... i don't really get that! you know, i'm not talking about those who make hasty decisions and jump into bed w/o knowing the person or without an after thought. i'm talking about the case when he/she could be genuinely in love! also, finding the right person is just a matter of time. you could very well meet somebody today whom you fall head over heels in love with, yet repent the same decision tomorrow. so i would never ask my partner why he didn't wait for the right time! one might never know what the right time is, because whenever you fall in love, you yourself don't know how long the relation would survive!

@SWB: i agree with both your reaons. the 2nd reason is clearly an ego problem, it does exist, and i've no time and no inclination to discuss people's egos! and i dont like dealing with such people.

about the 2nd reason, i agree completely. virginity if often the certificate of a good *character*, and inecurity leads to this deduction.

i don't dispute the fact that marriage is a life long decision, hence men, even women, tend to be more careful following the 'prevention is better than cure' funda... i won't contradict that POV. each one to his ownself... just that i don't believe in this and think its crap... being so damn insecure doesnt help. at some point, you got to trust yourself! if you can't, i believe you got strong reasons... right or wrong, i won't know!

and i know live-in relationships won't work in india... at least not in the near future. nothing one can do about it.. it'll take ages for the society to come to terms with it... esp. the middle class on whose shoulders the obligation to safe-guard morality rests. society is important, but you have to decide the expanse of this circle. you can't bother about every tom dick n harry.

but anyway, each one is entitled to his/her views, so be it... i can't preach to the world... it really doesn't mean much to me...

also, thank you for the longish post your insights were bang on target also, try to break your own record the next time around

@Dan: i swear i swear, i knew it was you when i read the comment on the main page, and i expected this reply from you ) bingo! sahi jawaab )



(10.12.05 23:13)
Well, it's not even that, i don't really care that he's slept with A woman prior to me. It's like, if he was a playa at some point in his life and slept with 6. Then i'm more like, "should i trust him?" the guy i'm seeing now has only had one previous partner, and that's fine with me. We don't care about each other's past, and i think that's the way it should be. I don't know, i think America has made me a hypocrite of everything i used to believe in.


(11.12.05 05:11)
well well... point noted and accepted
peace!


(11.12.05 06:17)
hehehe, thanks I just hope i haven't further confused you in all this!


peeved / Website (21.12.05 11:11)
Ah! Another politically correct ramayan about virginity.
Surprisingly everyone who writes about it (pre marital sex) is always ok with it. I have never seen anyone saying "hey premarital sex is bad" (except on some right wing conservative dimwit nut jobs page)
so the point of discussion is moot because u wont find ppl coming and tell u here that its not right..
I strictly believe in not being a hypocrite.. if u r a virgin, then u have the right to ask for one.. if u r not, then u dont.. as simple as that
who cares if pre marital is right or not.. most ppl do it anyway.. problem arises when ppl start being hypocrites abt it.
surprisingly, u r fine with premarital sex but u need societys approval for a live-in ?
which leads me to question your beliefs in premarital sex..would u tell ur potential groom (say in an arranged marriage) that you have had sex before?! or would you hide it?!


roopa (16.1.06 07:47)
hi, i am ryzer my name is roopali patil,i went thr. ur page & got this blog plse, dont mind why didnt u clear here ,is like u r married or not,have u have pre marital sex, or not????????????


(16.1.06 08:05)
well roopali, this blog isn't my personal diary. so i don't feel the need to jot down or inform people about my marital status and whether i'm a virgin or not! it's just to express my views on the topic, and get to know others views on the same, regardless of what they do in their personal lives!
btw, you haven't told me your views on the topic


crammedDiscovery! (22.5.06 09:17)
Basic instinct of male and female: (ref: Discovery Ch!)
> Male: Aabundant sperms, do not feel the need to be choosy about partner has basic instinct to spread his gens
> Female: Scarce supply of egg's has basic instinct to get the best mate for protection and healthy offspring.
Male likes this instinct of women (virginity is sort of relfection of that). Similarly most of the female likes this instinct of man (whether they admit it or not).
These things are genetically programmed instinct for procreation and survival of species.
Now we human are not animal who are driven by their instinct. We have a soul to guide our decision. We understand love deeply so we can easily override these instincts.
We can create/extend/reject/choose not to create an opportunity. Which we choose will depend on our overall personality backed by beliefs based on wisdom/publicity/misconception/peer pressure/insecurity/lack of love/love illusion etc etc.


(29.2.12 22:26)
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