david raphael israel
/ Website
(5.2.06 19:57)
Archana, your poem immediately put me in mind of a ghazal by Ghalib, which I only know through translation [but it's a poem that I had internalized long ago (since I first worked on a new rendering of it, and also set it to music), so it became closer than usually a translated poem might]. It begins with these lines: You should have waited there for me a little longer now gone you there alone should stay a little longer -- a different thought (and situation) than that reflected on in your poem; but both share these qualities: a simplicity of phrasing, a delicacy of expression, and a quality we might call gravity (in terms of mood, and view). The repetion of the phrase at the end of each stanza is a natural invention, but one which again pulls this into comparison with a ghazal. Another couplet from Ghalib's that I recall is slightly more baroque in its use of a reference from common stock of religion, but it retains the gravity (and adds a hint of mordant humor): You leaving said we next would meet when Doomsday comes as if my day of doom would wait a little longer The difference in underlying situation can be noted in passing: Ghalib (it's said) wrote addressing his son who had passed away. But the parting of intimate companions in life (as, on the face of it, your poem seemingly might point to) is, to the thoughtful person, a matter no less deserving of deep reflection. You bring such reflection to bear on this poem with a nice feeling of elegance and a tone that feels if slightly restrained, yet in no way contrived. The form of the poem, in which each thought wends its way to the repeated phrase, is among the poem's appealing aspects. I feel as if a few phrases might bear possible improvement (or some attempt at it) only to the degree it might be possible to slightly polish the lines in a way that could make some of them rhythmically a bit stronger. I'm not sure about this thought. Actually, the poem is very tight, it feels there's no extra word at all. Nonetheless, let me show you the kind of poss. reision I (vaguely) have in mind. In the first stanza, there's the possibility of changing one word in the 2nd line: | Had i known that the last we met | Would be our final meeting | I'd have stayed a while longer To me, this is rhythmically a bit more strong; but it might be that "final" is a more weighty word than you find suits the feeling and thought here; it might be overly weighty. The difference in rhythmic effect you can anyway easily see if you simply recite the stanza with "last meeting" versus with "final meeting" in that line; the line reads differently, and the stanza reads differently. Then, the choice of which solution is the correct solution, is one only the poet can make. But I run through this here, as I thought it might interest you as a very small study. From one example, the possibilities of other alternatives for one or two words (in this or in other poems) can in some sense be extrapolated. Any poet, anyway, is already weighing differing possible words; this note is merely giving that process a moment's particular focus. Having said that, I can see some way in which "last meeting" may work best here -- the line then doesn't get weighed down, the thought runs ahead a bit more casually . . . -- and there is some variation in rhythm pretty much in each stanza . . . but perhaps this suffices for musing on a single word choice. Hat-tips on a notable (and one could say "sparely elegant") poem, which neither trivializes nor perhaps overdramatizes: it seems to seek a deeper relationship with memory and experience. In that regard, the direction it traces takes in and of course also transcends the specifics of its occasion. Another interesting thing about the poem is the way in which it restricts its attention and comment very particularly. Every stanza, we can say every word reflects on the speaker's own emotional response, sentimental comprehension [perhaps here inventing a phrase, in effort to find a vocabulary for this] -- and that is the circle within which the poem finds its existence. It does not in any way look into the question of causes, it allows for a sense of contingency only to the extent the speaker notes her own (now rued) unawarness that the last meeting was in fact to be the last meeting. Indeed, reflecting on this, as reader I begin to question my own initial assumptions even about the situation sketched in (or taken as subtext to) the poem. The parting is treated as so much a given, it's a peculiar fact that as reader (and as speaker / experiencer), distinctions between causes of this parting are removed from consideration. In some ways, I wonder if the "acceptance" (there is no hint given of lodging a protest, either at the beloved addressed, or at, say, the fates) the poem draws upon in its inherent attitude, can be considered an especially feminine trait, or an "eastern" (Indian) trait in some respects. That is, it has some relationship with broader cultural views. In any case, in terms of the art of poetry, what is included within the scope of a poem's rumination, and what is not, -- this is (we can say) an exceedingly nuanced and a quite central question mark that the poet, in limning (in course of writing) is solving. It is similar, by analogy, to the choice of a painter to show only the face of the subject, or the whole form, or the form with chair and table, or those, plus too a window and pitcher of water. Here, we are given only the speaker's own emotional response: but it is addressed to the departed beloved subject, addressed in a loving manner which seems to seek neither to czast any shadow of blame, nor to tighten any net of new future entanglement. In this regard, the poem's gesture -- despite its emotional weight -- seemingly strikes a balanced (and in some sense, a neutral) position amid the drama it contemplates. bests, d.i.
david raphael israel
/ Website
(5.2.06 23:19)
Anchana--- if you can put up with yet further notes on this poem: studying it a bit further, I'm mildly dissatisfied with the repetition of "stayed" as the verb in both 1st and 4th stanzas; everywhere else it's varied. Here, its repetition seems unconscious, where variation might add to the poem's care of expression. [An alternative (in the 1st stanza) could be "lingered." [Another approach entirely could be to have rhyming words just prior to the repeating phrase; this is the formal approach used in ghazals, and it's actually hinted at in your poem with the last 2 stanzas: "stayed" being essentially a rhyme with "gaze". I'm just noting this in passing, not suggesting the poem be radically altered to meet the demanding requirements of such a rhyme in every verse. The point of mentioning it here, rather, is by way of a formal possibility worth considering in subsequent writing.] Further study of the poem shows how "last" is repeated in the 2nd line of the first 3 stanzas. It is thus, to that degree, a formal element of the poem, but is dropped in the final 2 stanzas. This repetition that drops out is not necessarily a fault; I've seen such a thing in other notable poems. Still, it's a facet of the poem's form worth taking note of. In some cases, such a repeated feature can be carried all thru; in other cases, it may feel desirable to vary it more; in others, as here, one might conclude it's fine like this! An example of a poem where there's such repetition that then drops out is, I think, St. John of the Cross's memorable "O Living Flame of Love" (but I'd have to check if my recollection is right on this). If not that, other formal poems of that ilk do show this, I feel certain. In fact I've seen the same feature in some ancient Chinese folksongs (circa 1000 b.c.) cheers, d.i.
thank you d.i. for that wonderful analysis of my poem! you noticed all it's finer aspects which i hadn't! wonder how you always manage to do it! now to incorporate your comments in my poem, i've slightly modified it.
as you correctly said, though 'final' makes the lines rhyme better, it is also a very weighty word. it may slightly alter the meaning of the line which i don't want to. 'lingered' fits in better in this line, though it sounds a bit frivolous, like wandering, for no good purpose. but in context of the poem, it goes well.
teh first 3 stanzas have the word 'last' in the 1st and 2nd lines. that was purposely done. the word 'last' has been dropped in the last two stanzas because the mood changes there.
also, the line 'I'd have shut up a while longer' is a bit too contemporary. i wasn't sure if the verb 'shut up'(its slang) fit in there.
acceptance may be an east indian trait, but i had not wanted to convey that kind of an acceptance. but since i've not hinted at any reason for the parting, i now realize that the poem also tends to reflect that.
do let me know how this revision sounds:
Had i known that the last we met Would be our last meeting I'd have lingered a while longer
Had i known that the last we talked Would be the last i would hear from you I'd have (shut up/ hushed) a while longer
Had i known that the last you touched Would be our last embrace I'd have kissed a while longer
Even with eyes closed I can Breathe you in and feel you around Yet i wish you'd stayed(halted/waited/remained) a while longer
In the alchemy of love Wish we had stayed a while longer And held that gaze a little longer
david raphael israel
/ Website
(6.2.06 11:14)
Archana, nice to know you found something useful in my verbose remarks. Let's now look at this, stanza by stanza, for your proposed / poss. revisions. FIRST--- To some degree there can be a bit of tension between levels of language. I happen to like many things about the word "linger"; -- I may have gotten my liking for this word partly from Tagore (he uses the English word a number of times in translations of his own poems). This may be a bit of a detour, but I'll show you a few of his lines, as there's nothing better than the example of a word used in a line, to expand one's sense of it a little bit. Here are some: -- There are times when I languidly linger and times when I awaken and hurry in search of my goal; but cruelly thou hidest thyself from before m -- The spring has done its flowering and taken leave. And now with the burden of faded futile flowers I wait and linger. -- We sang no glad songs nor played; we went not to the village for barter; we spoke not a word nor smiled; we lingered not on the way. We quickened our pace more and more as the time sped by. -- Come with us, the morning is wearing on to noon.' But I languidly lingered awhile lost in the midst of vague musings. Anyway -- originally your 1st stanza read: Had i known that the last we met Would be our last meeting I'd have stayed a while longer and now you're contemplating: Had i known that the last we met Would be our last meeting I'd have lingered a while longer Lingered is possible, yes. Remained (which you note as an idea for stanza 4) seems likewise possible here. If one switches to "lingered," it might open a question of revising the 2nd line too in some way -- how precisely I don't know -- perhaps to bring it into line with the feeling of this "lingered" (which is more formal than "stayed"). I'm merely running thru this as example, not as suggestions per se! -- e.g. -- Had i known that the last we met Would be our last assignation I'd have lingered a while longer or maybe better? -- Had i known that the last we met Would be our last encounter I'd have lingered a while longer However, if we're changing this "stayed" primarily to avoid the repetition in stanza 4, my feeling is that maybe stayed should stay! (here), since in stanza 4 there are other good solutions. SECOND--- Had i known that the last we talked Would be the last i would hear from you I'd have (shut up/ hushed) a while longer hushed is possible -- it's on a similar plane as "lingered" -- both are drawn from a mildly older vocabulary, and a good one to have on hand certainly. Shut up is a bit harsh, but is hushed too mild! Instead, how about? -- I'd have listened a while longer FOURTH Even with eyes closed I can Breathe you in and feel you around Yet i wish you'd stayed(halted/waited/remained) a while longer Actually guess what? In this stanza I feel lingered may work best. ;-) But I do feel that remained also fits well. Waited sounds okay too -- it depends on the nuance you find fits the poem's feeling. I'd say all of those strike me as superior to stayed here. (Hmm, halted is interesing too! -- but without elaboration of its implied metaphor, it might not work as well here.) In just a bit of haste -- but those are my basic reactions. This has been enjoyable -- of further use? cheers, d.i.
I would make only one change in this: hushed to listened hushed is too mild, but it also does fit well here. but i'd like to use listened in the 2nd stanza since i've used lingered in the 1st one. make sense?
Had i known that the last we met Would be our last encounter I'd have lingered a while longer
Had i known that the last we talked Would be the last i would hear from you I'd have listened a while longer
Had i known that the last you touched Would be our last embrace I'd have kissed a while longer
Even with eyes closed I can Breathe you in and feel you around Yet i wish you'd waited a while longer
In the alchemy of love Wish we had stayed a while longer And held that gaze a little longer
Dissertation methodology
/ Website
(19.9.11 12:04)
Hello Friends. ! Dissertation methodology Great post ! I reading your blog today it's very interesting and informative for everyone i waiting your next post........
you noticed all it's finer aspects which i hadn't! wonder how you always manage to do it! now to incorporate your comments in my poem, i've slightly modified it.